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Knapp combination owners

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lodger View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 5:40pm
I'd love to be in contact with anyone who owns a Knapp combination machine. Is there anyone out there.

Lodger
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woodcraft interiors Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2010 at 1:09pm
Hi I had coveted a Knapp KFS saw/spindle/morticer for some time.
About 18 months ago I acquired from Brian Tate at Pro Machine tools his demo machine with all its toots and whistles.
Knapp had sadly had just gone into liquidation and as Brian had known of my interest for some years kindly let me have his last remaining machine.
It now takes pride of place in my newly constructed workshop. It is indeed a well crafted bit of kit, however there is some runout on the saw arbor which I did not expect.
I have used it to make a kitchen that I was commissioned to build. The sliding table facility was a vast improvement over my old Startrite saw table and speeded up the entire making process + greater accuracy and improved end result. Also along with my newly acquired single ended tenoner I used it to construct a large 3/bay 16/casement window. I used the spindle sliding table facility to comb joint the casements, I can still obtain the tenoning carriage from Robland but I baulked at the £400.00 + cost.
Currently I am using it to construct two fine oak doors 2.3m x 900mm x 45mm for the workshop. I will need to eat my Wheetabix when it comes to swinging them. It may seem extravagant to fit oak doors but I am building my Workshop as a house, with an eye to getting change of use for when I retire.
Up until such time I hope to get as much use and pleasure out of using my tools and machinery as is possible to get.

Derek
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lodger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lodger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2010 at 10:46am
Hi Derek,

Are we the only Knapp owners on the planet? Glad to hear you're enjoying your machine, me too after a disappointing start. I had the same runout with my saw arbor(strange),   a 2.5m sliding table that I couldn't get level, and settings(squareness for instance) that would change for no apparent reason, I couldn't trust it. I eventually discovered that the table was warped either from manufacture or damage in transit. It took two years to get the table replaced. Since then I've been learning how to set the machine up properly by trial and error, this was really the reason for my post on this site, I needed help. An inadequate instruction book and no workshop maintenance manual meant for me there was no way of knowing how to take the thing apart or put it back together again. There is no noddies guide! and I'm noddy!! How do you manage? What did you do about the runout on your arbor? Have you found an easy way of squaring and levelling the sliding table?

Yes, I agree it's beautifully built, I'm enjoying using it now. The first thing I built was a kitchen for our own home, and am currently building a sofa bench of massive proportions out of ash, a run of storage cupboards for a community hall, and repairing our local Church door. I live on an Island off the west coast of Scotland, hence the need to be independently able to service, set or repair my Knapp. I'd love to hear how you deal with yours, maybe yours is perfect, maybe you're an engineer. In the meantime I'm learning a lot, I guess that's the opportunity that's come out of the challenges I've had since I became a Knapp owner.

Roger
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woodcraft interiors Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2010 at 1:42pm
Hi Roger

Sorry to hear you have had problems with your Knapp. I would like to help you if I can. I qualified as an Industrial Designer (Engineering) many moons ago.

Having the same problem with run out on the saw arbor isn't too encouraging to hear as it can only really be addressed properly by changing the arbor. I checked for runout on my saw with a dial gauge. Although I cannot recollect the amount, it was not within tolerance.

Although a bit of a Heath Robinson affair, it can though be improved by the following procedure. First check the arbor and flanges are clean and undamaged. Mount you best quality saw blade at full height, then mark the arbor, flange and saw blade with a felt tip pen to ensure alignment. Then by rotating the arbor against say a piece of wood 10mm to 15mm square x 150mm held perpendicular to the periphery of the blade find the high point, mark that position. Then rotate the blade 180 degrees and mark that position. Then between the blade and the flange insert a piece of paper about 25mm x25mm. Experiment with different thicknesses and combinations until you get an improvement. When satisfied super glue the paper to the flange.

I would then take as a reference point the edge of the cast iron table on the side that is next to the blade and check the toe and heel of the saw blade (mine was out) because if the back of the blade rubs against the material being cut it impairs the finish. This adjustment is not outlined in the manual but by adjusting the socket headed bolts that hold the cast iron saw quadrant,arbor, bearing assembly on the front of the saw base you can correct any misalignment.

Now check to see if your saw fence is exactly parallel to the blade. Use a small spacer block, check at the front and back of a fully raised blade against the fence. Any misalignment can be corrected by shimming the mounting bar and its fixings between it and the table. Note: It should now follow that the fence should be exactly in line with the edge of the table if set correctly.

Finally check the gap between the cast iron saw table and the lip of the sliding carriage. Insert a slip of hardwood cut exactly to size should reveal any differences. It is possible to adjust the sliding carriage as per the manual but be careful not to induce any stress into the under carriage when tightening.

As the cross cut fence stops are sprung loaded it is always worth having a firm grip to ensure the workpiece is held fully against the fence.

I carried out all of the aforementioned adjustments and I now achieve results that I am satisfied with. I have owned my Knapp for about 18 months now and I accept that my machine had been moved around at exhibitions and was about 8 years old when I bought it. I suppose if you buy a Knapp you are a bit of a perfectionist and to see your machine running at less than optimum is disappointing especially given the cost of the machine.

I hope this is of some help to you it is quite difficult to explain but if I can be of any further help you can call me on my mobile 07973341677.

Good luck and happy adjusting.

Derek.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fogfurn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2010 at 10:43pm
i to own a knapp saw/spindle combi, have it nw 8 years. i do like it, but always get the feeling that something will go wrong. all the quick release handdless broke. measurements on the rip fence keep goin off on ,me. the spinle is a joy to use. i prey it will give me years of work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lodger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2010 at 10:58am
Hi Fogfurn,

Thanks for the reply. Say what you like about the machines the build quality is fantastic. One of the main reasons for choosing a Knapp was that it was unfussy and unlike the Felder with all it's electronic gimmicky stuff. Yes I've had my challenges with it, but I'm starting to know and like it, and it will last me a lifetime. It would just have been good to have a full workshop maintainance manual, instead of having to learn by trial and error.

Roger
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote janboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2010 at 11:18pm
Gentlemen,
Just to re-assure you that there are other owners of Knapp machines..! I have owned a Combi TK410 since I bought it new in April 2003 from Brian Tate at EMCO Pro Machine Tools at Barnack, Stamford, Lincs. It has the 2.5m sliding table and most of the super extras that were available at the time, other than the Tenon systems which I declined.

It was installed and commisioned by an engineer recruited by Brian (and thank goodness he was available as I would never in a thousand years have sorted things out myself) he not only set things up, but also talked me through the various operations. I will try to dig out his name just in case you guys would like to contact him... for 8 years the machine has functioned perfectly on it's 3 phase converter, it has met every challenge I have thrown at it including quite a lot of heavy duty with large hardwood sections, the 4 blade WIGO cutter block is fantastic and worth every penny I paid for it's upgrade.

Now gents, I have a fairly comprehensive operating manual and all the electrical commisioning data, but it runs into well over a hundred pages, mostly two sided! Quite few of these I downloaded myself from the emco website, having checked tonight however I fear it no longer has any link to knapp products.

I am based just outside of Worcester and would be happy to help you if I can... you may contact me on my email keith.brooks1@virgin.net ...

Do hope you find this helpful/

Keith
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ACT4WOOD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 11:59am
Hello there

I am also a fellow Knapp owner. I have a spindle saw and also a 400 mm planer. Both brilliant machines. I ordered them from Brian Tate and had them delivered to France. Absolutely no set up problems.

The plastic handles do break as they do on all modern machines of whatever make - just have to keep a few spare but more importantly keep them positioned out of the way which is more easily said than done!

I took a long time to make up my mind about these machines. It was either Knapp or Felder. If one took the best of both you would have a fantastic machine but as it is I think the Knapp has the edge. It is heavier and more solidly built so no vibration which is the killer for accuracy.

Has anyone had an electric break go? Mine has just gone on the planer but as I do not employ anyone there is no urgency to replace it. It just takes a long time to slow down! It is equipped with a four blade Wigo block which give a super finish. Where do you buy your blades from? I purchased direct from Leitz at first when they were on special offer but they are mighty expensive now.

If it is of interest I trained as a teacher of 'constructional design' and then taught design in wood in both in the state and private sector. I took early retirement and set up a business here in France. I have just retired but thinking about starting up again as I am getting bored!!!

I am only too pleased to help anyone - once a teacher - always a teacher!

Look forward to hearing from anyone - my e-mail is: act4wood@yahoo.co.uk.

Andrew

Regards

ACT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote janboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2010 at 1:53pm
Hi Andrew,

Having at last got clear of Christmas I thought I would just acknowledge your posting! I continue to enjoy my Knapp 410 and it rewards me by behaving itself commendably well... like you I too am retired (from Tobacco Sales) and over the 11 intervening years I have gradually accumulated a workshop full of extravagant machinery and tools, some of which I now know how to use, and lots of others on which I am still learning... measure x5 times... cut x3 times etc!

My Wigo block blades are however starting to get a mite worn and are losing their edge (and having turned them over once to get rid of a nick caused by a hidden nail) I shall soon be in need of replacements... I'll have to go shopping on-line and see what turns up... what sort of price do you expect them to be now?

I am intrigued to learn that you are now domiciled in France, exactly where are you?

Have not experienced any of the other problems listed by other Knapp owners, so perhaps I am lucky! But it might be good if we all keep in touch as in the absence of any manufacturers warranty or servicing facility, anything which goes wrong could create a major problem, so lets share our knowledge?

my email is keith.brooks1@virgin.net

Janboy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonkat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2010 at 5:16pm
Hi There,

Another happy Knapp owner here, this time in Berkshire.

I've had one 410 combi machione for over 10 years now and nothings ever gone wrong with it although all the electronics etc are propriety products anyway. The only ploblem I can see with the demise of Knapp is if I am daft enough to break a casting, I'm so much a fan of Knapp that late in 2010 I bought the very last machine that Brian Tate had, it's 6 or 7 years old but has never seen wood, effectively a brand new machine ! It had been ordered for a customer who never paid for it - a £17,000 machine for, well, a lot less that that :-)

Jon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ACT4WOOD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2010 at 5:51pm
Hi Janboy

Thank you for your post. I sent an e-mail to you but it has been returned but the mail demon! Have you got another e-mail addres?

Andrew
Regards

ACT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ACT4WOOD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 12:20pm
Hi all

I have just discovered a very good place for Leitz style blades for the Knapp Wigo block. I was quoted £12.83 per blade plus delivery and VAT. My nearest quote to that has been nearly twice that!!!!
If you are interested go to www.cutting-solutions.co.uk or telephone them on 01353 722799 (UK) They do bandsaw blades, saw blades etc. Worth speaking to them.

Andrew
Regards

ACT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lefranc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2011 at 9:29pm
Greetings from Canada!!

Finally, I have found some fellow woodworkers who are fortunate enough to have got their hands on a Knapp. I have just received my Knapp combi (3 meter slider, hi-speed router, mortiser attachment, 16" j/p, steff powerfeeder with swing away, 2007) but have not figured out which approach to use to power it up yet since it is a 3 phase model and I haven't yet decided whether to expand my shop and add three phase power or settle on a converter. I found the machine through a bank repo firm and am actually afraid to publish how little I paid for it!!! It is basically brand new and looks to have maybe 50 or 75 hrs of use on it. Anyways, enough gloating. I am curious to know about the likelihood of finding parts for these machines and maybe even some accessories. I can post pics if any other members would like to see it.

Thanks,

Colin L.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beckerkumm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2011 at 5:21am
I am a Knapp owner in Wisconsin, USA.  Great machine, more heavily built than Felder.  The crosscut fence is a standard 60x45 or 60x60 bosch extrusion, depending on how you source the flipstops.  I bought several from Grizzly, a maker of Asian based machines that fit the 60x60.  The felder t slot nuts fit the Knapp slider with a little sanding on the bottom.  I added a start stop to the slider.  Seems that most parts are off the shelf so other than original castings, it should be fairly easy to fix the electrics.  Felder riving knives work fine as well.  I also made a table extension to allow the 2m table to rip an 8 ft board or plywood.   Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2011 at 9:08pm
I am also a Knapp owner in the USA (Cape Cod) and I have a cousin who also owns a Knapp.
Mine is a full combination machine with a 2.5 Meter slider and a 400mm jointer/planer. I also have a router spindle and both 1 1/4" and 30mm shaper spindles, the mortising attachment and the tenoning table.  My machine is unusual in that it has 220V single phase motors. I would have preferred a 3phase machine but I bought this one (slightly) used at a good price.

Cousin Jeff has a 3 phase machine with a 2.5 Meter slider and a 400mm jointer/planer.  His machine stops much faster and seems to be slightly more powerful.  He uses a rotary converter as installing 3 phase power is very expensive in the USA.

Jeff is a professional designer builder and I am an amateur woodworker so his machine sees heavier use than mine, but we have had very few problems with either machine.   btw - Jeff and I installed both machines working together.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beckerkumm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2011 at 10:15pm
I'm wondering if the single phase version doesn't need the brake installed on the larger motored machines.  A 3/4 spindle is also available- if Laguna has any left.  If you go to Mac's blog you can see my kfs with a set of pneumatic clamps and a switch I installed on the sliding table.  When you see their attention to detail it isn't surprising they couldn't compete in the marketplace.  Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2011 at 3:31am
Originally posted by Beckerkumm Beckerkumm wrote:

I'm wondering if the single phase version doesn't need the brake installed on the larger motored machines.
Both the 1phase and 3phase machines use the same method of electronic braking, the 3phase version just works better.

 
Originally posted by Beckerkumm Beckerkumm wrote:

If you go to Mac's blog you can see my kfs with a set of pneumatic clamps and a switch I installed on the sliding table.
Where do I find Mac's blog? Is Mac his name?

I have also installed pneumatic clamps - They are very useful in some situations.

Ed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beckerkumm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2011 at 4:01am
www.macsblogboard/blogspot.com is the site- I think.  Martin Campshure co. LLC is the company.  If you hear of accessories, pass on the info.  I will do the same.  The cast iron miter gauge would be a good candidate.  How is your single phase for shaping?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 3:39am
Originally posted by Beckerkumm Beckerkumm wrote:

  How is your single phase for shaping?


While the single phase motors are not quite as powerful as the 3phase the difference in power is not very great (both types are over 4 hp).  So shaping is not a problem.  One can not push the planer as hard, but taking big planer cuts result in tear-out so I don't do that.

I use the Big Squeeze air clamps that were developed by someone in the Felder User Group.




Sorry about the picture size, I did not have time to resize it.   The clamp shown is not on my Knapp but on someone's Felder.  My clamps are actually black anodized.

Ed


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonkat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 8:22pm
Hi Dave,

I wonder if you could post pics of your table extension so I can see how you made it please
?

I ask because I have 2 Knapp machines, one has a 10ft table the other is like yours - I have to sell one or the other and I'm not sure which one should go Cry

Jon
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